I love reading your work. So far walking through the basic seminar with you has been so clarifying. I've been struggling to describe some of the the BS I'm unpacking on my own faith journey and reading your commentary on the Basic Seminar is helping me find words. Everything looks right on the outside, but when you scratch the surface everything begins to fall apart. Excited to read more!
p.s. I enjoyed this reminder, "When we look for Christ - and in particular His suffering and glory - when we read the Bible, it narrows the interpretive possibilities and keeps us from getting into weird waters."
I remember being irritated when often whole lists of scriptures were referenced as supporting whatever precept was being taught, and the connection between so many of the references and the precept being attempted was tenuous at best.
Please do elaborate on Gothard's redefinition of grace, if you can. That's one of the things that I found so mind-blowing when I began to examine the teachings and materials that I absorbed when I was younger. I couldn't understand how he could take straight-forward, orthodox tenents and redefine them, while many Christian's looked on, seemingly without batting an eye.
It's helpful to see you point out his misuse of narrative.
Thank you for taking the time to wade in, Rachel! I'm glad you could have a lovely time camping with your family.
Super good post. I know this is a small part of a bigger problem, but one thing that really stuck out to me was this:
"and he sees that IN ORDER TO develop inward character, HE MUST SACRIFICE outward beauty"
I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate when preachers do this or say this. "God can't do this without doing that." "God has to do this in order to do that." Unless they're directly critiquing some sort of logical contradiction, it always sounds like they're putting God in a box. (I once saw a philosophical question that asked, "Could God make a universe that wasn't made by him," which to me just seems like navel-gazing when people are starving and in bondage; religion, while not without a checkered-at-best past, has done a lot of good for actual social justice.) And it repeatedly feels like manipulation. "God can't do this for you, or in you, or through you, unless you do this." God made the universe and made me. God could physically do with me as he pleased. ("Is that ethical" is a question I've heard used as a quasi-rebuttal fairly often, and I think it's a genuinely good question even if it's outside the scope of this post.)
Also, minor quibble with his quote, I have a lot of problems with people talking about God ever 'sacrificing' anything. Whether that's outward beauty, or to be perfectly honest, even his own earthly incarnation on the cross (He got better, very quickly, and many people who sacrifice their lives in the real world can't say the same). But regarding the speaker talking about "sacrificing outward beauty," it seems so culturally subjective and elitist. People were recently arguing about a character in an upcoming video game whose appearance is so conventionally unattractive that it looks like she was deformed (she was apparently modeled after someone with a more conventional appearance), and my first thought was, "I'm sure SOMEONE finds this attractive, and we can't technically tell them they're wrong just because their positive opinion is unpopular."
That grooming technique you mentioned at the end was so creepy, to say nothing of how I've been self-conscious about my own dental irregularities for years and I would have been a prime target for him.
Blessings and grace and peace to you for sharing these things, Rachel.
Yeah, that limiting of God was something I noticed too. Along the same lines, he also says later on that we have to "put ourselves back on God's easel" so he can finish what he's doing with us. Gothard's god is definitely very small ...
I love reading your work. So far walking through the basic seminar with you has been so clarifying. I've been struggling to describe some of the the BS I'm unpacking on my own faith journey and reading your commentary on the Basic Seminar is helping me find words. Everything looks right on the outside, but when you scratch the surface everything begins to fall apart. Excited to read more!
p.s. I enjoyed this reminder, "When we look for Christ - and in particular His suffering and glory - when we read the Bible, it narrows the interpretive possibilities and keeps us from getting into weird waters."
P.S. speaking of B.S., I've giggled to myself more than once thinking about how the acronym for "Basic Seminar" would be B.S. 😅
I'm so glad you're enjoying it! It's been a cathartic process for me too. Writing through this stuff is always very helpful for me.
I remember being irritated when often whole lists of scriptures were referenced as supporting whatever precept was being taught, and the connection between so many of the references and the precept being attempted was tenuous at best.
Yeah ... it's almost like he's just free-associating with words from the text.
Please do elaborate on Gothard's redefinition of grace, if you can. That's one of the things that I found so mind-blowing when I began to examine the teachings and materials that I absorbed when I was younger. I couldn't understand how he could take straight-forward, orthodox tenents and redefine them, while many Christian's looked on, seemingly without batting an eye.
It's helpful to see you point out his misuse of narrative.
Thank you for taking the time to wade in, Rachel! I'm glad you could have a lovely time camping with your family.
Quick heads-up : "you’re definitely (not) going to hear any rock music.
Thank you!
Super good post. I know this is a small part of a bigger problem, but one thing that really stuck out to me was this:
"and he sees that IN ORDER TO develop inward character, HE MUST SACRIFICE outward beauty"
I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate when preachers do this or say this. "God can't do this without doing that." "God has to do this in order to do that." Unless they're directly critiquing some sort of logical contradiction, it always sounds like they're putting God in a box. (I once saw a philosophical question that asked, "Could God make a universe that wasn't made by him," which to me just seems like navel-gazing when people are starving and in bondage; religion, while not without a checkered-at-best past, has done a lot of good for actual social justice.) And it repeatedly feels like manipulation. "God can't do this for you, or in you, or through you, unless you do this." God made the universe and made me. God could physically do with me as he pleased. ("Is that ethical" is a question I've heard used as a quasi-rebuttal fairly often, and I think it's a genuinely good question even if it's outside the scope of this post.)
Also, minor quibble with his quote, I have a lot of problems with people talking about God ever 'sacrificing' anything. Whether that's outward beauty, or to be perfectly honest, even his own earthly incarnation on the cross (He got better, very quickly, and many people who sacrifice their lives in the real world can't say the same). But regarding the speaker talking about "sacrificing outward beauty," it seems so culturally subjective and elitist. People were recently arguing about a character in an upcoming video game whose appearance is so conventionally unattractive that it looks like she was deformed (she was apparently modeled after someone with a more conventional appearance), and my first thought was, "I'm sure SOMEONE finds this attractive, and we can't technically tell them they're wrong just because their positive opinion is unpopular."
That grooming technique you mentioned at the end was so creepy, to say nothing of how I've been self-conscious about my own dental irregularities for years and I would have been a prime target for him.
Blessings and grace and peace to you for sharing these things, Rachel.
Yeah, that limiting of God was something I noticed too. Along the same lines, he also says later on that we have to "put ourselves back on God's easel" so he can finish what he's doing with us. Gothard's god is definitely very small ...